Challenge the Norms: Dr. John Poothullil on Weight and Wellness

In this episode of Taking Healthcare by Storm, Quality Insights Medical Director Dr. Jean Storm speaks with John Poothullil, MD, FRCP, a physician, author, researcher, and patient advocate. 

Dr. John shares how his own weight gain led him to question common assumptions about calories, BMI, and why people gain weight, and he describes an “authentic weight” based on individual biology and health markers rather than a chart. He discusses how modern food culture can disrupt hunger signals, raises concerns about long-term effects of GLP-1s and artificial sweeteners, challenges the concept of insulin resistance in type 2 diabetes, and encourages people to ask questions and be cautious of profit-driven health misinformation.

If you have any topics or guests you'd like to see on future episodes, reach out to us on our website.

The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, positions, or policies of Quality Insights. Publication number QI-082826-GK

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Welcome to "Taking Healthcare by Storm: Industry Insights," the podcast that delves into the captivating intersection of innovation, science, compassion, and care. 

In each episode, Quality Insights’ Medical Director Dr. Jean Storm will have the privilege of engaging with leading experts across diverse fields, including dieticians, pharmacists, and brave patients navigating their own healthcare journeys. 

Our mission is to bring you the best healthcare insights, drawing from the expertise of professionals across West Virginia, Pennsylvania and the nation.

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Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Taking Healthcare by Storm. I am Dr. Jean Storm, the medical director here at Quality Insights. Today, I am excited to be joined by Dr. John Poothullil, a physician, author, researcher, and patient advocate. And I'm going to be referring to him as Dr. John, as he has asked me for the remainder of this conversation. He has spent decades asking questions that many healthcare professionals never think to ask. Dr. John practiced medicine for more than 30 years as a board-certified pediatrician and allergist, caring for patients throughout his career while developing a deep interest in understanding the biological drivers of hunger, weight gain, diabetes, and other chronic diseases, something-- many of these things, all of these things are impacting society so much today, especially in the United States. Rather than accepting conventional explanations at face value, he embarked on a decades-long journey through the scientific literature exploring physiology, endocrinology, biochemistry, and human metabolism in search of answers. He has developed his own perspectives on weight management, type 2 diabetes, cancer, and lifestyle-related diseases. And these perspectives are challenging current assumptions and have sparked important conversations. Dr. John is the author of several award-winning books, including Eat to Live: Diabetes: The Real Cause and Right Cure, as well as Your Health Is at Risk. And his latest book, Beat Unwanted Weight Gain: Seven Ways to Lose Pounds and Never Regain Them. Through his wi- writing, speaking engagements, syndicated columns, videos, blogs, and media appearances, he has dedicated himself to helping people better understand how their daily choices influence their long-term health Today we're going to be talking about the most pressing questions in healthcare and wellness. Why do people gain weight? Can we trust our own body's natural hunger signals? Are GLP-1 medications changing the way we think about appetite and obesity? How much of our eating is actually shaped by advertising and modern food culture? And what role do exercise and lifestyle play in diabetes prevention and management? And then we're gonna be finishing up with how patients, all of us, can separate evidence-based guidance from misinformation and medical scams. Dr. John brings a unique combi- combination of clinical experience, scientific curiosity, and willingness to challenge established thinking, something we really need to do especially in this day and age. Dr. John, thank you so very much for joining me today. Dr. Storm, I thank you for having me, and I thank the audience for their interest in this subject because it is so important, as you just pointed out, for our wellbeing. We both aim to empower the patient or the person to take charge of his or her own health, and I thank you for your efforts. I'm delighted and I am very interested in this topic as well. Multiple topics. As I mentioned in the introduction, you practiced pediatrics, allergy, and immunology for more than three decades. What first sparked your curiosity about hunger, satiety, weight gain, and diabetes? And what made you willing to challenge ideas that most of the medical community accepts? I mean, that's a hard thing to do. Well, that, that is an, a very interesting and very important question. During my 40s, as I was practicing, I noticed that I gained weight during the winter months and that weight goes away in the spring. So naturally I assumed in the winter I'm not active enough to spend the energy that I'm consuming. Then in the 50s, as I reached 50s, I noticed that the what I gained in the winter is not going away, in spite of thinking I'm eating the same amount, I'm exercising the same, yet I'm keeping the weight, and it keeps added up- adding up one or two pounds a year, and that is what made me think, "Well, there is something doesn't make sense here." So I went to the medical textbooks and I s- and they all said weight gain, unwanted weight gain, is due to lack of exercise and improper diet. In my mind, at least, I was eating exactly the same, exactly the exercise was exactly the same as before, yet the weight was staying. So there is a disconnect. So I could not understand from the medical literature. So that is when I started the process of thinking about why am I gaining weight and where is the disconnect between the information I'm getting and what is actually happening. Yes. I mean, and that's a definitive... I mean, when you, when you come at it from your own perspective, I think that's very powerful, and then you have all this experience and e- education. So I think that this is a very powerful way to approach this challenging problem. I wanted to start in talking about your books, and in your latest book, Beat Unwanted Weight Gain, you argue that many people misunderstand why they gain weight. What do you believe is the single biggest misconception about weight gain, and how does that misconception keep people stuck? Again, as I mentioned improper diet. Okay, what does that mean? Most of us are told that your body needs a certain amount of calories, and all the diet programs are based on a fixed amount of calories based on one's height or existing weight or expected weight and all that. But if you think about it, when you eat, who is counting calories in the body? There's no calorie counter. There's no energy counter anywhere loc- located anywhere in the body. And how do you know you had enough calories? How do you know how many calories you need when you sit down to eat? One pound of fat in the body represents 3,500 calories. So if calorie deficit is the reason for your eating, you should not be eating for a couple of days if you have a couple of pounds overweight. So that itself is a myth. Almost all the, uh, weight reduction programs, preprogrammed diets, they're all based on calorie counting, but the body doesn't have a counter. So that does not make sense. That is the first assumption I had to challenge and correct And that's a huge, huge challenge and it, it's something that, you know, I agree that doesn't make sense. You write about helping people reconnect with their body's natural weight. What do you mean by an authentic weight? And is it really possible for most people to reach and maintain it without constantly dieting? A very interesting question, and everybody ask me the same thing, "What is your authentic weight?" Let us con- look at what is, w- when you-- what constitutes your body weight? Of course, there is muscle, there is fat, there is bone, there is water, there are organs and systems. So altogether, you s- stand on a scale, you get a total weight. Now, there are some p- the-- I... Let me tell you the story of two patients that I had. Both of them weighed 300 pounds each, and both of them were told by their doctors that they should lose weight because based on their BMI chart or weight chart, they are overweight. So I asked the first person, "How is your blood pressure?" "Normal." "How is your cholesterol?" "Normal." "How is your triglyceride?" "Normal." "How is your fasting blood sugar?" "Normal." He just happened to be a big, muscular person with all the parameters normal. So I said, " medically, I see no reason for you to lose weight unless you want to lose weight. You are healthy." On the other hand, the second person was already on two different diabetic medications, and his doctor was asking him to start insulin. And he said, "Medically, you are obese because your fasting blood sugar is high, your fasting triglyceride is high, your cholesterol is high, and you are medically obese." So each person, how much weight he can carry depends on your height, your weight, your genes, your muscle. So, so what that is, the, the weight should be based on each person's genetic capability. What we are inheriting with our genes is the amount of the cap- how much fat you can store or how much muscles you can have, how tall you are going to be, and each one is different Ideally, or almost i- in the majority of the cases, you reach your optimum or auth- what I call authentic weight in your mid-20s. Why? Because you have reached your maximum height, your bone is ma- most dense by, at that time, maximum density. And if your fasting blood sugar, fasting triglyceride and cholesterol, LDL are normal, that is your authentic weight. Is that clear? Yes. Yes, and it makes me- makes sense, right? That is what I thought. People don't like things that make sense, I think. Yeah. Because most people are so used to a weight, uh, scale, a weight scale or a BMI, they get obsessed, "Oh, I'm 10 pounds overweight." And another problem, especially with ladies, is the shape. How does, how do they look? So that skews the whole thing. What is your healthy weight? What is your authentic weight versus what is your expected or glamorous weight, if you want to call it? Glamorous weight, yes. I think that's what we think is healthy and normal now, but it is not. Yes. Speaking of weight, GLP-1s are everywhere and anywhere, and they're incredibly popular for weight loss. While there's a lot of people who are seeing significant results, do you worry that these medications may prevent people from learning or relearning the body's natural hunger and fullness signals? To fully understand that, uh, question, you know, it may take an hour to explain, but let us see. Can I ask you a simple question? Sure. Can you p- can you predict when you are going to feel hungry next? No. No. How does the brain know when to create the sensation of hunger? Well, I guess it's when you need fuel, right? Well, again, you go going back, when you say fuel, you're going back to the calories. Oh, you're right. You're right. If you have one pound of fat stored in the body, how can the brain feel hunger or create hunger sensation based on need for calories? This is true because you have already some calories stored. You have some fuel already stored. Your storage tank is full, so how ... You don't need more gas. Yes, this is true. This is true. Okay. Now, look at a baby, a toddler, two to six years of age ideally. You will observe three things. One, the child will eat only when he or she is hungry. Second, if grandma makes 10 things, the child will pick and choose what the child likes. Third, when the child is satisfied, he or she could care less what is left on the plate. He'll go out and play. Yes. Th- they decide when to eat, what to eat, how much to eat. They grow up normally. Why can't we do it? Yeah, I g- You're right. You're right. So did GLP-1s mess this up, do you think? No. What we are already messed up, that is the secret of the success of GLP-1. Okay. As we get older, we get conditioned by, oh, we have to go and there is a game, I need to eat now. There is a, we have to travel, we don't have time to eat, and I have work to do, I need to finish eating. Our hunger signals, satiation signals, eating habits all are messed up. They are not natural. They're ... You recondition them, so the brain wants to make it convenient for you to do more efficiently whatever you plan to do, whatever you want to do. Just like a basketball player who gets extremely good in free throw by practice, a pianist become a professional by keeping on practicing. The brain facilitates repetition and stronger wiring to accomplish it faster with less energy expenditure or more efficiently. So we get com- uh, conditioned by pr- uh, the pre-made processed foods to keep eating, not because we are hungry, but because it is available, it is cheaper, it is affordable. So our wiring has been messed up. The GLP-1 tries to suppress the hunger to give the brain a pause so that you can change the wiring. So that is the s- reason for the success of GLP-1 Okay. It's messing us up more maybe ... I- and it is trying to control the already messed up wiring. Yes. Now... Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say that makes sense, right? Ri- right. Now the, the you asked the second part of the question, do you worry about it? Yes, I do worry about it. Not for the short term, but will ha- what will happen to the long term. Just to give you an example. Human body, if when you lose weight on a GLP-1 drug, 70% of weight loss come from your loss of fat, but 30% comes from loss of protein in the body. Okay? Now, this is critical. Human body needs 20 amino acids, of which nine are called essential amino acids. They have to come from your own daily diet. If you don't eat them, your body will start breaking down your own muscles to generate or to release essential amino acids. And you can go on for a few months without eating them, but after that, the muscles start breaking down, and it messes up your whole biochemistry inside, depending on ex- of course, what you are eating, even though you are eating less of it Does that make sense to you? Yes. Makes sense. Yes. So that is what I'm worried about because you don't know what created or what you're... When you sit down to eat, you have no clue how much protein your body needs, what amino acids your body's, how much minerals, what type of minerals, or the quantity or the quality, and you have no clue what is in the food. With modern-day cultivation practices, agricultural practices, the soil is depleted. - The foods may not have the same nutrients as naturally or organically grown foods. So y- there's a disconnect between what the body needs, what is in the food, what you are eating, how much, when. So this is the long-term problem. Already, eye surgeons, eye doctors are seeing some s- bad side effects with regards to vision in some people who are taking GLP-1 medications. So this targeted deficits in different people are going to happen. Mm. Well, more to come, I think, on this topic. I wanna move on to your other books, and one of the themes in your work is that our eating behavior are heavily influenced by our environment. Just as you were saying, it's, you know, I have, um, I have to go to work so I need to eat, or I'm at the ball game so I need to have a hot dog and a beer and, you know, it's, it's very cultural. How much responsibility belongs to the individual versus food marketing, advertising, and the modern food industry? Are we being conditioned to overeat? Absolutely, because... Well, two things. One, can you afford organic food? If you go to supermarket, can you afford it? Most- Most people can't ... yeah. So that is the problem. So why is the processed foods more affordable? It starts with the government subsidy for agri- for agriculture. We bu- we give $25 billion in agricultural subsidy, most of which is used for grain farming. If you think about it, grains were never meant for humans, otherwise we would have had beaks to pick them up and the ability to digest the chaff. We don't But every government in the world, almost every government subsidizes grain farming because of the agricultural revolution, and the fertilizer and the industrial revolution all facilitated farming grains in major industrial formats. So it is cheap- that's the cheapest food available. So that's- Mm ... the easiest way to fill up your stomach, and that's the cheaper and affordable food compared to organically grown f- fruits and vegetables and nuts and other animal products. So this is where it starts. So how can you blame the individual if he cannot afford it? Yeah. I agree. I agree. Food deserts are a huge problem in- across the United States. The tragedy is you spend $25 in subsidizing grain-based foods, and you pay 10 times, 12 times more in a year to treat the complications related to type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular problems, and next we are going to get into the problem of dementia and Alzheimer's, all related what's called lifestyle diseases related to unwanted weight gain and improper food intake. Yeah. In your book, Diabetes: The Real Cause and the Right Cure, you argue that type 2 d- diabetes is a lifestyle-driven condition , and I would agree, rather than an inevitable genetic destiny. Can you just explain that perspective a little bit? And what changes do you believe have had the greatest impact on reversing the disease? That's a great question. In order to fully understand that, we have to go back the his- history of insulin. Insulin is one of 50 hormones in the body, and do you know what insulin does? It is released when you have a lot of sugar to drive it into the cells, so it's not just float- the sugar isn't just floating around in your blood. Exactly. In the, uh, but the critical thing is how does it work? For example, how do you know there is somebody in- uh, coming to visit you in your- when you are in the house or apartment? That person either rings the doorbell or knocks on the door, and you know there is somebody outside. And then you can, if you have a camera, you know who it is, and you can decide whether to answer it or not. Every cell in the body, by the way we had about 30 trillion cells in the body, every cell in the body can use glucose to produce energy. But glucose has no way of letting the cell know, "I'm outside." There's no doorbell for glucose to ring. That is the job of insulin. Insulin does not get into the cell. All it does is go along with glucose to let the cell know, just ring the doorbell and they- that's it. And the cell decides whether it needs glucose or not. If it needs, it will send a wagon or a cart to the front of the door, open the door, load up the glucose, and bring it in for energy In children who have type 1 diabetes, their pancreas does not produce enough insulin. So these children used to die by age 10 because the vital organs could not function for lack of energy production, even though there was plenty of glucose outside the cell. So about 100 years ago, insulin was discovered. When insulin was injected into these children, they survived just like everybody else. The person who treated the maximum number of type 1 diabetic children is Elliot Joslin of Boston. There is still a clinic there, Joslin Clinic, in, in his honor. Dr. Joslin was so amazed at the recovery of the quality and quantity of life of these children, he trained nurses to go out into the community and give insulin to anybody with high blood sugar. So they asked him, "How much should we give him, these people?" So he looked at his records and said, "Give enough insulin to bring the blood sugar normal, and that will work," because each child is different in activities and usage of glucose to produce energy. So that became the norm, that bring the blood sugar down. When his own aunt, an elderly lady, came with high blood sugar, Dr. Joslin thought it is the same disease as in children, but happening at an older age group, so he called it adult-onset diabetes. At that time, he did not have a facility or lab test to measure the normally produced insulin in the body. When that test became available, to the surprise of endocrinologists, the test revealed that adults with high blood sugar also have normal or even more than normal insulin in the body at the same time So that created a confusion. How do you explain the presence of insulin and high blood sugar at the same time? So they initially named it as insulin insulin-dependent diabetes for the type 1 and non-insulin dependent diabetes for the second without knowing what it is or what it was. And they thought... At, at around that time, there were reports of resistance of bacteria to penicillin. So Dr. William Fortin in Vienna hypothesized that perhaps something similar is happening in adults. Their body is not responding to insulin, which became a convenient, uh, explanation for endocrinologists because they could not figure it out in any other way. And later, that term morphed into insulin resistance. The concept of insulin resistance is strictly an explanation of the finding rather than a proven medical fact. have you ever seen a test to measure the degree of insulin resistance? Oh, no. Why? Why? I mean, it- that's complicated, right? That's a complicated thing. Why? Why is it complicated? Do you know what it is? Well, I mean, i- their insulin resistance, you know, obviously muscles require insulin. The brain requires insulin, so I mean, there's so many tissues that rely on glucose. So yeah, I think this is a- this is an interesting point, right? It seems obvious. It is- it is an explanation, but that doesn't prove it, right? You're right. What's the proof? You're right. What's the proof? What do you mean by resistance? If you lose weight, your blood sugar goes normal. So you lose resistance? Right. You get more insulin sensitive, I guess, right? How, how does that, well, how does that work? For any hypothesis, you, first of all, it has to make sense, logic. Why after 50 hormones, only the body decides to resist insulin? Why, why not, a progesterone or an estrogen? Have you heard of a term for estrogen resistant whatever, or thyroid resistancy? No. You're right. Okay. So why, why should the body choose insulin to resist? And then even then, there are 200 types of cells in the body. Only three become resistant to insulin: muscle, fat, and liver. What happens to 197 others? Why are they not, not resisting? Yeah, I don't know. These are good questions Right. Then you need to have a way to measure it. Otherwise, how do you know if you are getting kidney damage? Is it because your resistance is getting worse or you are not treating it correct? If your treatment is not right, your infection is not going to clear up. Right. Correct. You'll die. Can you g- can you just say, "Oh, you s- ha- happen to have a condition that is progressive regardless of what we do"? If we are not doing it right, it is going to be progressive. Yeah. Right? My own relative, her husband was a medical school professor. She was diagnosed with type two diabetes. He gave her insulin diligently, kept her A1C below seven. She had an amputation of her leg, one leg. This is during my training and practice. So I thought, okay, I didn't know, I was not researching diabetes at that, at the time, but I thought, well, the treatment insulin did not help her save the leg, so the doctor will change the medication or the dosage at least. No. He increased the dosage. In a year and a half she had to have the other leg amputated. Can you imagine an elderly professor taking care of his wife's needs, physical needs, emotional needs, intellectual needs, companionship, double amputee, she's on the bed? That is what made me start on this journey. There's something not right here. . My own publisher's brother, we begged him. He was on insulin, controlling his blood sugar. We begged him, "Don't do it. Don't do it. Change your diet. It is what you put in your mouth that is absorbed as glucose that is keeping your blood sugar high." He said, "No, my doctor said my, I'm controlling my blood sugar, controlling my diabetes." He is now on permanent dialysis. Now he says, "Dr. John, I wished I had listened to you earlier." So how can you not, how can you not get upset? Tell me. Yeah. I agree So I, we need to move on because I really want to talk about artificial sweeteners. They're so controversial. Most people, a lot of people rely on them, artificial sweeteners, to have, uh, consume less calories and manage blood sugar, while others, people focus heavily on exercise to m- to manage their blood sugar and reduce calories and burn calories. So what role do you believe artificial sweeteners... And maybe we'll just focus on artificial sweeteners here and, and maybe say a little bit about exercise. Should these things play a role in diabetes prevention and management, but do you think, or do you think people are getting it wrong? The artificial sweetener popularity came just because what is, what I call word association. What is most people think table sugar is responsible for blood sugar elevation. Just the word sugar that is the common thing. Table sugar is sucrose. Blood sugar is glucose. Yes, sug- glucose is part of sucrose only. But if that, it was that simple, if you are diagnosed with high blood sugar or diabetes, all you have to do is stop putting table sugar and your blood sugar should get normal. You know that does not happen, right? Yes. Yes. Okay. So how does the blood sugar go up? It is not from the table sugar. It is from the complex carb coming from wheat, rice, and corn. When they are digested in the body or in the intestine, it is absorbed as glucose. So your blood sugar comes from, not from f- table sugar, elevation of blood sugar, unless you are drinking a whole lot of sodas with sugar in it, which most people don't, your blood sugar is coming from the grain-based foods. So if you want to control it, taking artificial sweetener is not the right way to go. In fact, it can do more damage long-term, because why do we have sweet-tasting sensors in the mouth? Because the brain wants to know- What your body's going to receive energy. And the way to de- as I said, there is no energy counter in the mouth, but the brain can associate the sensation of sweetness with the impending or anticipated absorption of energy containing glucose. Mm. The artificial sweetener will stimulate the similar the receptors in the mouth and send a message of arrival, impending arrival of energy containing glucose into the in- into the body, and the brain will feel, "Okay, there is energy coming in." But later on, if the energy is not absorbed into the body, when you use the artificial sweetener, there is no follow-up energy. The brain control system doesn't know what to make of the normal, natural energy-containing f- sweetener or sugar. So there is a confusion. So your control mechanisms get messed up. In the long term, both animal studies and human studies show that you gain more weight if you continue to use artificial sweeteners. And do you know why it happens now? Because you are messing up with the control system. That makes sense. Yes. Okay. Very kind of common sense. I wanted to close out with something that is a very important topic. In your book, Your Health Is at Risk, you talk about misinformation, disinformation, and missing information There's so much health content in social media, and I know I get asked by people every day about things that they have seen on social media or asked ChatGPT. How can the average person separate trustworthy advice from medical myths and scams? And this is a related question, kind of a, a, a part to this question. If you were put in charge of healthcare in the United States, what is the first thing that you would change? It is almost going to be impossible to control the information or disinformation or misinformation. Each person has to take charge, but the drawback is the average knowledge of science for an average... Or the knowledge of science for an average American is about the sixth or seventh grade level. Science is progressing so fast, and the it is being interpreted by so many people, and some of them for their own vested interest. The best way to change or to separate the two is if the advocate is se- trying to sell you something, be careful. If they have a profit motive in advertising or telling you, "This is right for you," be careful. On the other hand, there are institutions and individuals who are not promoting a product, but just information, and that could be more reliable even than... You know, i- if you look at the type 2 diabetes, in the medical textbooks and all the professors and medical schools teach that insulin resistance exists. So I don't know how to answer that question directly because even the experts can be wrong. In my view, at least that is what I have been fighting for the last 25 years, that the concept of insulin resistance is totally not proven. It is just an explanation. So when I say that, how can I tell every, others who is doing, who is saying it right and who is saying it wrong? Sometimes it is very difficult. So you have to learn to trust some people who... And then follow them. That's all I can say. I don't know what else, how else to say it. Yeah, it's challenging. It is. So, so what if you were in charge of healthcare in the United States? What is the first thing you would do? Well, the main thing is the, contract with some of the leading universities and teaching institutions and Health and Human Services, NIH, people like that, they should screen out, at least say, "Okay, this is the accepted, but these are the challenges or non-proven aspects of this concept." When I wrote to NIH, they will say, if you look at their website, it'll say type 2 diabetes starts when muscles, liver and fat cells do not respond to insulin. So I asked, I sent a letter and asked them, what is the evidence that they are not responding? How do you know? And what they told me was, if you disagree, y- I have to disprove them. In other words, I have to prove something that does not exist in my opinion, that is insulin resistance. I have to prove it doesn't exist before they can change. So that being the case, it is difficult to know whom to believe. But you ... If NIH says this is the accepted concept, but it is not based on proof, it is based on explanation, then the person who reads it can understand, okay, we need... We cannot just accept it unless it makes sense. So the first thing is if the doctor says, "Okay, I'm going to give you this medication," ask questions. What is it for? What if it doesn't work out this way, what shall I do? What if I have some other information, somebody tells me this, what shall I do? Ask and understand because most of us are afraid to ask the doctor a question or chal- the doctor feels like you are challenging him. Yeah. The, the medical education, the ed- institutions have to teach the students to expect challenges, to how to answer questions. If they don't know the answer, be open, say, "I don't know." It is perfectly fine, but they are not teaching the students like that. They feel offended if you challenge them or ask a question Yeah. I agree. I think, and a lot of people are so used to that mode that when you say you don't know, they almost think you're not smart, which is exactly the opposite. It's smart to say you don't know. So if people want to learn more about you or your books, how can they do that? My website is drjohnonhealth.com, one word, and books are available on Amazon, except Eat to Live, that I first published, has been... We stopped printing that because I split that into the diabetes part and the weight gain part into two separate smaller books, because the other one had, well, was too much information and too big, and people, even my own colleagues they start the page and then they decide it is too big and too long, so they stop reading it. So we split that into two group- groups. Excellent. I encourage everyone to check out Dr. John's books, and we will link his website in the podcast episode page. Dr. John, this was enlightening. I learned a lot. Thank you so very much for joining me today. I thank you for having me, and I thank the audience. The main thing is to take charge of your own body, your own health. Yes, you need helpers, healthcare practitioners to help you with, but ask and understand before you practice.

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