Taking Healthcare by Storm: Industry Insights with Allen Cooper

In this episode of Taking Healthcare by Storm, Quality Insights Medical Director Dr. Jean Storm speaks with Allen Cooper, co-founder and CEO of ReadyList and the president and CEO of Ancilla Ventures.

Allen shares how ReadyList was created to digitize environmental services workflows, using checklists and inspection data to improve cleaning consistency, accountability, and room readiness. He emphasizes that COVID-19 showed EVS must be treated as a peer in decision-making, and that stronger collaboration and right-sized technology can reduce burnout, support faster high-quality turnovers, and improve patient safety.

If you have any topics or guests you'd like to see on future episodes, reach out to us on our website.

The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views, positions, or policies of Quality Insights. Publication number QI-052926-GK

Transcript

Welcome to "Taking Healthcare by Storm: Industry Insights," the podcast that delves into the captivating intersection of innovation, science, compassion, and care. 

In each episode, Quality Insights’ Medical Director Dr. Jean Storm will have the privilege of engaging with leading experts across diverse fields, including dieticians, pharmacists, and brave patients navigating their own healthcare journeys. 

Our mission is to bring you the best healthcare insights, drawing from the expertise of professionals across West Virginia, Pennsylvania and the nation.

Subscribe now, and together, we can take healthcare by storm.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Taking Healthcare by Storm. I am Dr. Jean Storm, the medical director here at Quality Insights. Today we're talking about a part of healthcare that most people never think about, but that plays a critical role in patient safety, infection prevention, and hospital efficiency: environmental services. And I can say, as someone who spent a good amount of time in hospitals and nursing homes, environmental services is critical. It's this kind of behind-the-scenes thing that really drives everything else that's happening. My guest today is Allen Cooper, the co-founder and CEO of ReadyList and the president and CEO of Ancilla Ventures. Allen has spent his career developing innovative healthcare software solutions, and in twenty fifteen he co-founded ReadyList with a mission to support the behind-the-scenes teams that keep hospitals running safely and smoothly. ReadyList's platform helps environmental services and surgical teams follow best practice cleaning and room preparation protocols, helping hospitals operate more efficiently while creating cleaner and safer environments for patients and staff and everyone wants that. Everyone should want that. Allen believes the right technology can save hospitals time and money, but more importantly, I know, and obviously Allen knows, that the right technology can help save lives. Allen Cooper, thank you so very much for joining me today. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on. I just wanna jump in, uh, 'cause I'm very interested in this topic. It's-- as we were saying before the podcast, it's not something that I've explored, but I've really enjoyed learning more about what you're involved in. You've spent your career building software solutions, but ReadyList specifically focuses on environmental services, as I mentioned in the introduction, and hospital support staff. What was the moment or experience that made you realize that these behind-the-scenes teams need better tools? Yeah, it's a great question. We were fortunate enough, you know, Ancilla Ventures partnering up with many hospitals and people, one of which was my co-founder, Brian Herriott. He actually approached me back in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen area about helping him with-- while they're opening up a new hospital out in the Bay Area, and one of their missions was-- is to try to digitize as much as possible in every aspect of the hospital, and his focus was kinda the back office operational and environmental services. And at that time what they were trying to do is eliminate a lot of the manualness a-and, also elevate the accountability of a lot of the teams. And he approached me asking, "Do you think that we could build that software?" And I said, "Of course." We were in the healthcare space and building pr-products similar to that, and so it wasn't too foreign to us. And so we kinda joined that together and eventually formed the company ReadyList thereafter based on basically a requirement of his hospital. Exciting. And I, I really love how things kind of... You know, what I've said is that the best things that happen are typically surprises in our life. You know, they kinda just happen and, and we don't expect them. It sounds like that's what happened here. 100%. Yeah, and we find that, you know, as we discuss a lot of our brilliant ideas are not always coming from us. They're mainly coming from our clients or prospects. We actually released a new version of one of our modules this year because of our clients. They push and drive us to, to see their world in a, in a way that it's just hard for us to do. You know, we, we don't live and breathe daily as they do, so. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about COVID, the COVID pandemic, and I know people wanna forget about it. I certainly wanna forget about it. But the pandemic put infection prevention and hospital cleaning practices under a global spotlight. From your perspective working closely with environmental services teams, and I'm gonna say that's EVS for-- as we go on, what did the pandemic teach us about infection prevention that healthcare still hasn't fully acted on? You know, it's, it's an interesting question. I can't say that every health system is like this. However we've seen some health systems that, during the COVID pandemic, one of the things we saw, the ones that learned from it was partnering with EVS area facilities in a way that they are becoming peers in decision-making. They like to look at how do they treat their patients collectively, because at the end of the day, I think they, they both need each other. The front line needs EVS to ensure that the patients are safe from infections that are being handled and cleaned by the EVS department. And the EVS also needs to understand the requirements and what is needed by the front end. And I think what we've seen that has been positive on some of the hospitals and health systems is more of that elevation of the EVS department in general. But I, I definitely don't see that everywhere though. And I think that's more of the area that is more concerning to me is when they really needed them the most, and they really did. I mean, everyone needed each other during that time period. I, I feel I empathize with the healthcare system during this whole area, and those that embraced it and really elevated their relationships and teamwork, I think is still paying dividends to this day versus those that maybe elevated at the moment when they needed it, and now that it's not to where it was going back to normal, I think that's more of the shame of Going backwards is probably not gonna benefit that health system in the long run, in my opinion, because this is just one of something else that could happen down the line. Who knows what it could be? I don't think anyone could predict what happened in the first place, so. Yeah. I, yeah, I agree. I, you know, I think, I think a lot about healthcare burnout and just because of my experience, I think about it with physicians and nurses, but EVS teams and support staff are essential to patient care as well. Maybe, Maybe more essential. so in your experience, are staff burned out maybe from, from the direct patient care environment or from the operational tasks like cleaning workflows, room turnovers, and maintenance expectations that surround patient care? I personally think they're equally burnt out for different reasons. I think that from my perspective, the front-end providers and the like sometimes are mentally burnt out. Um, they're dealing with a lot of sophisticated things that they have to deal with and treat a patient, and it's exhausting. You know, it ends up exhausting them physically as well. And I think the EVS or the back, those that support that, are burning out because they're typically probably like how the front end is, is short-staffed. I think because some of the personnel there, sometimes this isn't their end all be all career, if you will. Some, some treat it that way, some don't. And because of that, it puts a lot of pressure on the team to pick up the slack for those that potentially may call in for whatever reason it might be. And I think call-ins are a little bit more common, because of that, and then ends up burning out those that are actually trying to pick up the slack. And at the end of the day discharges and the daily cleans don't go away. It's a constant evolution of things. And then what ends up happening is things like floor care and the like ends up being put to the wayside, which those that kind of follow the infection controls of things, you can't minimize the floor care. You really can't. I mean, it's a perception thing, but it also is definitely something real that we do not want to bring hospital in- hospital infections back to their homes because of our floors, right? So that'd just be an example of what, you know, burnout ends up showing and, and displaying neglect in areas that are very critical to, uh, supporting the patients and their needs. Yeah. I was just in the hospital last night and Eh, right? Like you don't wanna look at the floor. It makes you a little scared, I'll say. So yeah, clean floors are super important. So that is gonna kind of bring us into what this management platform is actually doing. So I'm sure there's listeners who are not familiar with environmental services technology. So can you walk us through what ReadyList's EVS management platform actually does and how it changes the day-to-day workflow for hospital support teams? Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, what it helps is twofold. It basically highlights both to the supervisors and managers is what is actually being done and how well is it being done through just collecting the data. So the cleaners themselves have to use the module to be able to, to document through just checklists, right? Their checklist of items that are expected to either do a discharge or a high clean or just a daily routine clean. And for the most part Most of the cleaners know what they need to do. What we try to do is highlight the areas, especially new protocols or expiring protocols, to ensure that every room and every situation is treated the same. Um, obviously, each room has some different requirements, but for the most part, we wanna make sure that protocols are not being missed. And i-i-- and collecting the data at a very granular level from the cleaners helps the supervisors truly understand when they do inspections against that. So the tool allows the supervisors to actually go back and inspect exactly the same granular inspection list that, the cleaners are using to do their cleans. And it really just highlights areas of deficiency. Where are there areas of opportunity that can be done better because it's been missed by five cleaners? Or maybe a cleaner, unfortunately, has had a bad inspection score, like three or four times in a row. Well, maybe that person just needs to kinda be supported a little bit better and elevated because the goal of the, of the tool is to help elevate the cleaners themselves. It's not to replace cleaners, it's to help elevate the ones you have because it is very challenging to keep your staff in general in healthcare. It's a, it's a very demanding area, and it's very short-staffed. And trying to ensure that you provide the supporting tools for your cleaners and then also have the visibility and the transparency back to the managers and the supervisors to help support them is, like, critical. So it really just kinda creates the transparency and accountability. And the other element also is you have, many great cleaners out there that do a fantastic job, but they're not being acknowledged or recognized for that because it's very hard to evaluate that when you're not having a tool to help capture that information. And so it, it also, in a positive way, those that are, you know, call them stars in their area, it helps them get promoted faster, right? It helps them kinda elevate their own game cause many of the personnel there that they end up creating a career out of this. And some, some don't, but many do. And why not have a tool that they can leverage to help support that and, and get them stronger? And, and frankly, like, I don't know if you're familiar with some of the, the certifications that EVS provides, whether it's the CHESP or the CHEST but I started looking into getting that certification. And I will share with you, I don't know how these cleaners do their job. They have to know a lot They have to know more than I would ex- you know, I would expect as a patient to even understand. And so having a tool to help them support to ensure they don't miss the things that are critical for reducing infection and increasing safety and all that stuff is quite demanding without some type of support like Readylist. Yeah. I-- Yes, I've seen it, and yeah, I, I would agree there. Those environmental services jobs are, hard jobs. And yeah, I, I love that you're like, "They need to be elevated," and I 100% agree. You know, when we, when we think about room turnover in a hospital, it sounds operational and-- but it actually affects patient care, hospital capacity, and even revenue. You know, we think about how many people have gone into a hospital and they're in the emergency room and, and they need to be admitted to the hospital, and they sit in the emergency room for hours, sometimes days, because the rooms aren't ready. There-- you know, there's a backlog. So how can faster, more reliable room turno-turnovers improve outcomes for both patients and hospital systems? Yeah, I-- it's just funny, like I do see some like emergency rooms, that's always where my head goes as well, and I see the emergency room expand itself into the hallways, right? Where you're like: "Okay, they're in the hallways. Where are they? Where are they? Oh, they're in the emergency room. Oh, okay." and I feel like it is so critical to ensure that the team that is in charge of doing the discharges truly understand the importance of doing their job and also being highlighted and alerted to ensure that's happening as well. So time is the essence, but so is the quality. And what we find is that there is a delicate balance, and you can't just go purely on speed, because speed will eventually end up catching up to you where you're gonna have to go back and redo what you did, which ends up overall slowing down the process. So I think having a system that basically tells you exactly what is needing to be done, where you don't overdo, it's kinda like underuse, overuse type of thing. Like do what is expected on what's supposed to be done so you can be the most efficient possible and so you don't miss things that have to redo that prevents a patient from getting in that room. I think that's just so critical for especially that team to understand. And that's the other thing that's kinda interesting is highlighting to that team through the tool of how important it is for them to understand that they're impacting like directly the patient, either in a positive way, which is the goal, or perhaps not so positive way, which I'm sure that they themself, if they were in that situation, they would prefer to be in a patient room if that's something that is available for them. So Yeah. Yeah. again, I don't think people realize that, you know, that's such a, important aspect of their hospital stay. they don't, they never think about environmental services when they enter a hospital room. So from your perspective, and I do this a lot with people who have loved ones that go into the nursing home to try to understand what's going on. So what do you think that patients should actually understand about the role EVS teams play in their safety and recovery? Yeah, I think that prior to me being in this space, I don't cl-- I mean, I, I kind of associated an EVS area as if they're, like, cleaning a hotel room. And I think it's very much minimized, and you don't truly understand that there's a bigger thing that they're trying to accomplish is w-which is really trying to ensure that the previous patient's experience does not basically bleed over into, you know, when I say bleed over, but, you know, like, at the end of the day, spill over into your situation, too, and trying to isolate those situations. 'Cause you want t-the patient to feel comfortable that they have a very clean environment. It's been sanitized and, um, also make sure it's not over-sanitized 'cause that's the other thing that we also try to ensure is, is that don't overuse products, right? Just because it smells like bleach, that may not be a good thing, right? So truly understanding how to use some of the tools and the cleaning products is critical. And as a patient, sometimes you associate certain things like that because you don't truly understand. And so I think from a patient perspective one is be kind to them because they're looking out after you. And they're there and caring for you, whether you're there and they're doing a daily clean. They're just trying to ensure that they can minimize infection from other aspects other people, and also the safety aspect of it, too, like, w-whether it's spilled or stuff on the floor or anything that could on an additional injury for yourself, which is something that would not be good for anyone. So I really just think that people have to understand that they have a bigger job there and, be friendly to them a-and in some ways praise them for all the hard work that they're doing trying to make your experience the best it can be. I love that you highlighted that. I was gonna say, yes. I mean, in all, situations, right, we should be kind, to those around us, but especially the EVS staff. And then I also wanted to highlight early on in my experience with nursing homes, I heard an individual say... We had a lot of outbreaks, obviously. There's still a lot of outbreaks, influenza and C. diff and scabies and, you know, we had COVID. And there was just this, a, an outbreak in a nursing home of a, a GI bug, you know, so a stomach bug. Very highly contagious, obviously. And this individual in leadership said, "I wanna walk into the nursing home and I wanna s- think, I want it, it needs to smell like a swimming pool." And I was like, "Is that effective? Like, does that make it like-" No, it's not. It's quite a mi- I mean, you probably know this just based on your own experience. But that, education part to the patient, 'cause sometimes- Yeah ... patients assume that they don't smell something deep and strong, it's not clean. It's like, eh, not necessarily. Yeah, so that's really interesting you highlighted that. And so then, you know, uh, we're talking about healthcare, I was just talking about healthcare leaders and what they think. So what should these leaders, nurses, and frontline staff be more aware of when it comes to environmental services and infection prevention inside hospitals? Yeah, and I think that I would hope at this point, at least f-for through our clients and who we work with is I believe they all kinda understand the roles of them. I think the one thing that we've seen in a positive way is a lot of these hospitals are trying to ensure that EVS has a seat at the table in decision-making. You know, whether it's an addition to a hospital or a renovation in a hospital, they're taking EVS's voice and applying that because the one thing that might be overlooked is if y- if you're buying, whether it's equipment, furniture, flooring, whatever, and you're doing it just for the looks of it, you may not understand that that may not be the best situation from an EVS perspective because they have to clean it, and you may double their time in cleaning it. Or you may have to introduce a different product that they're not, that, that they would not recommend in terms of cleaning, and you end up maybe damaging the stuff. Or if you don't educate the EVS of what that's doing, they could be wrecking the things that you just bought. And so at the end of the day, like that could cost a lot of dollars for the hospital, which a- at the end of the day ends up being passed on to the patient eventually, right? So what I would say is that the leaders as we've seen some of our clients, they're elevating that area and having a seat at the table. And for those health systems that may not be there yet, I would encourage them to start exploring that really bringing them and having their voice. I think it'll go a long ways. And then just at the end of the day, and this is what I treat my staff, I treat my clients this way, is get to know them enough so you can trust them because when you, when things go bad, you're gonna wanna lean on those that you trust the most, and you're gonna do it in more a methodical and non-emotional way versus if you don't know who you're working with and things don't go well, there's a lot of finger-pointing, and there's a lot of accusatory types of things going on which negatively impact everyone. So I would say is ensure that if you're not there yet, bring that team to the table and treat them as a partner and not as someone that is a side note for any activity you are doing in the hospital. Yeah, and I, again, you brought something else that I think is pretty pervasive in healthcare that I think needs to go away, which is blame. I mean, we just need to solve the problem and not blame people. So yeah, I love that you brought that in. So my last question is I-- as you said, you've worked closely with hospitals and healthcare systems for a long time. If you stepped into a senior leadership role inside a healthcare system tomorrow, what is the first operational or cultural issue? Because we've been talking about cultural issues in, you know, with, um, EVS teams and healthcare team in general. What would you tackle first to improve hospital performance and patient safety? I think I'd first just do an assessment of kind of what I just stated before about how are each of the departments and areas working with each other right now? Is it, are they in silos? Are they already collaborative? And, you know, if they're in silos, that's the first thing I would probably do is remove those silos and have everyone understand that, you know, this is a team effort and the team doesn't stop at the providers or the, the frontline. It really continues through the back end of it because I think each area needs each other. And I just think at the end of the day, things will get done faster. I think you will get more support by EVS by treating them as peers. So if that's not already happening, I think that I would try again to elevate that area and I'd also educate those that are, you know, using them that partnership is so valuable to success of treating patients. And you know, you should be walking halls together and pointing out things together collectively and, empower the EVS area to be highlighting these things with, frontline staff because they're gonna have a voice. They're seeing things that, that the frontline may not see because at the end of the day, the frontline is focused on the patient. That's their main goal is to treat the patient and their symptoms and make a better outcome. They're not always looking at some of the other byproducts that might be impacting the patient because they just don't have the time. So leverage your resources. So for me, really truly ensuring that if there are silos, break them down and begin to create a more of a collaborative approach in, treating the patient would be kind of the biggest thing. And then I guess the secondary thing is where are we at with technology? What we have seen in technology, you know, we're in that space obviously, but there are the cases over-overuse as well, right? So w- we obviously want to be in the hospitals. We also wanna be there where we're help reduce the amount of time on technology, not necessarily increase the amount of technology because you would know this, you know, if you're working in any type of EHR, there's a lot of time-consuming things going on just with that particular platform, and we recognize that. Adding on two or three more technologies to be able to do the same amount of work isn't always a positive. Sometimes it ends up being more of a negative. So I think also assessing that and balancing that as well. Yeah. And I love you said collaboration several times. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's like overkill for me. I just, I'm it's just kinda the way I think, it works. It works. Yeah. Yeah. If people want to learn more about you and what you do and, and all of your, companies that you're involved in, how can they do that? Yeah. They can go to our website. If specifically Readylist, it would be, you know, Readylist.com. Or if you wanted to see kinda what, what else we're doing out there related to healthcare software, Ancila Ventures, that's A-N-C-I-L-A ventures.com. Um, Or look me up on LinkedIn. Um, I'm always open to connecting with people and learning more about what are you doing out there in healthcare space. Very nice. Allen Cooper, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so very much for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it

Thank you for tuning in to Taking Healthcare by Storm: Industry Insights with Quality Insights Medical Director Dr. Jean Storm. We hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you found value in what you heard, please consider subscribing to our podcast on your favorite platform.

If you have any topics or guests you'd like to see on future episodes, you can reach out to us on our website. We would love to hear from you.

So, until next time, stay curious, stay compassionate, and keep taking healthcare by storm.